Build Your Brand On LinkedIn - Tips From A LinkedIn Top Voice

Lavinia Thanapathy, LinkedIn Top Voice, TEDx Speaker, and Trainer, and Annette Richmond, Personal Brand Strategist, career intelligence Resume Writing, discussed strategies for personal branding on LinkedIn.       

Named one of the Top 200 Top Voices in Leadership in January 2022, Lavinia supports people and companies as they adapt to the challenges of change. She also helps clients enhance their reputation through personal branding on LinkedIn. 

Topics included:

✅ What developing a personal brand means, and why it's relevant for you 

✅ How often you need to post on Linkedin to gain visibility HInt: it's not 7 days a week 

✅ What engagement on LinkedIn means, it's not just about posting content

✅ Finding your voice on LinkedIn, what type of content works for you

✅ Why success on LinkedIn isn't all about the numbers, like how many followers you have

✅ How to become more comfortable with change


Smarter Career Moves LinkedIn Live Show (Previously Recorded) 

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(Previously recorded, Live Show)

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Transcript

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[00:00:08.410] - Annette 

So good morning or good evening or good afternoon, wherever you are. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited to have Lavinia here with me today. I'll welcome to the Smarter Career Moves LinkedIn live show. We are here every Thursday morning at 11:00 A.m. Eastern. So, Lavinia, I have to tell you, too. I've had such a problem trying to pronounce your last name. And I learned from the pronunciation on your LinkedIn profile. And you know what? I thank you for that. And it's a good lesson for people if you're having trouble pronouncing somebody's name. So I'm welcoming Lavinia Thinapathy, correct.

[00:00:51.470] - Lavinia

Fabulous. Brilliant. It said the way it's spelled. I'm so happy to be here with you in it.

[00:01:01.190] - Annette 

So for people who don't know, you tell us a little bit about kind of what you do, who you are right now and the things that you're doing.

[00:01:12.770] - Lavinia

Oh, wow. This is to tell me about yourself, right? Did you read my resume?

[00:01:21.290] - Annette 

I did. I read your LinkedIn profile and I have questions that I found there.

[00:01:25.570] - Lavinia

But for people, I don't know if you've seen this, but on TikTok Bass viral thing, when someone goes to the interview and then they said, Tell me about yourself. And the person goes, have you read my resume? And the person says, yes. Well, then tell me about myself.

[00:01:43.790] - Annette 

No, I haven't seen that. I'll have to check it out.

[00:01:47.390] - Lavinia

Thank you for inviting me on your show. I'm so delighted to be here. My name is Lavinia. I am here in Berlin, Germany. But behind me you can see this very I don't know, I guess it looks Oriental in many ways. This is a painting of doorways from my home, which is in Singapore. And in Singapore, we have an amalgam of cultures and the kind of art that you see here. It's called paranokan art, and it's an amalgam between Chinese and native Malay cultures. And so that's a little bit of what's behind me. And the national flower of Singapore is the orchids. I have a little bit of Orchid here as well. So this is very much all of me, the European and the Asian and all of them mixed up in between.

[00:02:32.630] - Annette 

Well, it's absolutely beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful and lovely to know that because I've seen pictures before, but I didn't know what that was. Right now, I'd like to kind of jump in since we're here today and we're talking about personal branding on LinkedIn. And I would like to say to anyone out in the audience, we thank you for being here. Please say hello and let us know where you are joining from. We can see your comments here in the studio, so please do have questions with those also in the chat. So I'm hearing a little bit of feedback.

[00:03:21.690] - Lavinia

That's weird. I wonder what's causing that. I can change to a different headphone, which might help. Hold on. Okay.

[00:03:36.570] - Annette 

I just want everybody to be able to hear everything.

[00:03:40.470] - Lavinia

I don't hear the feedback, but it could be that I'm too loud. So hold on, let's see if we can turn me down a little bit.

[00:03:50.550] - Annette 

I hear my voice feedback. I think it might be the headphones because I've heard that before. So anyway.

[00:04:00.670] - Lavinia

Should we try to swap over? I can try to put in my earbuds and see if that works a little bit better. Let me just make sure it doesn't pick up my hold on. And it's always interesting, these things, isn't it?

[00:04:23.690] - Annette 

I'm not hearing it right now. I'm not hearing it now at all.

[00:04:29.330] - Lavinia

You're not?

[00:04:30.310] - Annette 

No, I'm not hearing it. So maybe it was just some kind of little glitch or something. So anyway, sorry about that. Sorry to the audience out there for switching up a little bit. The thing is that we're talking here about personal branding and personal branding and engagement. They're all over the place. Those are kind of almost buzzwords today. And it seems like personal branding is a new thing, although I read about it in the early 2000s in a book called make a Name for Yourself. And I believe it was sort of directed at women and it was written by someone in PR and a brand strategist. But for people who wonder what is personal branding? Because I wonder about that myself, can you kind of define it for us?

[00:05:28.730] - Lavinia

There's a lot of really good ways to define it, but I find that the way that's helpful for most people to think about it. It's about controlling today very specifically for the way we are living today and the way that we're communicating today. It's very much about controlling your reputation, and that's essentially all it is. And right now it's about controlling your digital reputation because that's really how most people are having interactions with you. That's what most people and people are making these decisions quicker and quicker. They're coming up, they're deciding whether yes or no. It's like swipe right and swipe left on Tinder. Not that I've ever used it, but I know how this works. I am pretending to be cool here, but essentially people are swiping right or swiping left on you all the time. And what you're doing with your personal brand is making yourself more sticky. You're having people just linger a little bit longer because they heard something about you. Your name is a little bit different. Something about you stands out in the sea of sameness. And that's what you're doing with your personal brand. You're turning yourself into someone a little bit harder to swipe right through because the decisions are being made really quickly and you want to be stickier in order that you can make the impressions that you want to make, whether it's for your career, whether it's for your business, you want people to remember you.

[00:07:03.760] - Lavinia

And that's what your personal brand is there to do for you.

[00:07:07.610] - Annette 

Yeah, I've seen that on TV and movies, too. They're swiping left, swiping right, picking out a mate. It's interesting how things are today. So I just want to say hello. We have some friends in the audience that I'm not seeing here in the studio. Moumita  is here. Hello, Moumita . Thank you so much for joining us. And Wanita is also here. And Gillian Whitney. Oh, my goodness. So we're so excited to have you here. And please do put your comments in the chat. And I'm not seeing them in the studio, but I can certainly pick them up from the chat. So I'm excited for that. And I think of that, too. It's kind of an easy way for people to think about it instead of, oh, it's my personal brand and it is your reputation. And there's so many things on LinkedIn and LinkedIn is really kind of our face to the business world. I mean, it's the world stage and there's about 800 million people, 850,000,000 people on there. And it's so easy to get kind of lost in that shuffle because we're one person and even someone with tens of thousands of followers still, you know, it's not so easy to stand out on LinkedIn.

[00:08:29.550] - Annette 

And I know that one of the things that you talk about is content. And I'm sure you've heard coaches, career professionals say, oh, you must post seven days a week or you must post five days a week. And I think if it's kind of like going to the gym in January, people sign up for the gym, they go for three weeks every day and then never again. Can you talk a little bit about kind of why that whole post every day is a fallacy? Really, people don't have to do that. And how to find your content. That's good for you, for your brand.

[00:09:11.910] - Lavinia

Oh, that's such a great question, Annette. So there's a couple of questions in there. So let me tackle those. I know it's cool. It's all good. So in terms of consistency, in terms of how often you should post, my suggestion is you should find whatever is your minimum viable consistency and consistency over a period of three months. Okay, what can you do over a period of three months? If you think you can post five days a week, seven days a week for three months, then go ahead and do that because that's what's viable for you. But I don't post that often. I mean, I post like once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, but I'm in a different stage of growth in LinkedIn than maybe someone who's new to the platform, trying to build a following. So you really want to start by knowing your purpose, always start with your purpose. Why are you on this platform? And that's a big question. But also right now, like today, what is my purpose on the platform? So today, for instance, I'm launching a course. So my purpose on the platform is very focused on my course, but yesterday I might have been much more interested in getting some speaking gigs because I'm a professional speaker.

[00:10:26.790] - Lavinia

So then my focus on LinkedIn might be very much more on getting more speaking gigs, which would be a different strategy. So know why you are on the platform as a big picture, but also know why you are on the platform at this moment and then you can make the right decisions for your content. Never feel pressured to post more often just because everyone else is FOMO is real on LinkedIn. A lot of people feel this. I get you, I feel you, but don't feel you have to. You can absolutely grow much faster on LinkedIn if you are posting regularly and every 24 hours is more than enough. I know some people on an extreme trajectory, they are choosing to post like two or three times a day. If you're doing that, make sure you're leaving at least 4 hours between your posts. I don't recommend it, but I know some people are really on a quest to become an influencer more power to them. But for me that is exhausting. Most of my clients have a job and their job is not posting on LinkedIn. So finding a way to post content that is in line with your lifestyle, your goals on LinkedIn and what time you have available.

[00:11:39.660] - Lavinia

It should not be your full time job unless this is what you do, right? So make it work.

[00:11:45.200] - Annette 

Yeah, it's so true. One of the things too I want to ask you about and forgive me because I don't have this written down, but I heard you recently talk about having these three different areas that you talk about and I know one I believe has change because that's kind of your thing and one of them is something bigger than yourself and I think the one in the middle was your expertise.

[00:12:13.450] - Lavinia

Is that brilliant? Oh, that's brilliant. You remember that so well. So I talk about the three buckets of content that I shape my content around. Yes, I have three buckets and I have three different labels in my three buckets and the first bucket is around change. This is my expertise. So whatever your expertise is, usually this is where a lot of your qualifications come from. You might have a degree in the space, this might be where a lot of your work experiences from. So this is your expertise space. Now there's a second bucket that is for me where personal branding sits. Personal branding sits in the bucket, which I call what I get paid to do. And so in this bucket is where I have products for sale. So things that are not necessarily from my first bucket, but some people have a lot of flow between expertise and what they get paid for. But I have a very distinct what I get paid to do. For me, it's around how people change the way they appear in the world. It's around personal branding. It's all around LinkedIn. It's around public speaking. All of this falls in this bucket.

[00:13:29.290] - Lavinia

And the third bucket that I have is a bucket that I call bigger than you. And many people struggle a little bit with content, but if they had a bigger than me bucket, which I have, then this bucket can always come to your rescue. Whenever you run out of content, you see buckets one and two are all about me. I'm posting about my knowledge, my business. It's all me me. And it's exhausting. No one can talk about themselves all the time. It's exhausting. And this is how people burn out. But if you had a bigger than me bucket and you're bigger than me bucket for me. Bigger than me is around gender equity. But it doesn't have to be something like that for you. It can be around pets, it can be around parenting, it can be around gardening. It can be around anything that is bigger than you, where you're not just talking about the you. You're talking about something else and something where you can affect a bigger change in the world. And that's something that many people don't define for themselves. They may have it in their lives. They don't define it as a content bracket.

[00:14:30.920] - Lavinia

So they're not looking there. They're not looking there to supplement what they're talking to the world about. And so it always ends up being me, me and me and me and me. It's very tiring to talk about yourself all the time. So I really recommend having a bigger than me bucket.

[00:14:47.290] - Annette 

I love that. And I remember this little girl is me the whole campaign that was going. And obviously, as a woman, I so love that you are shining a light on that. And I hear that. And I have been inspired by you. And I chatted. Moumita and I had a conversation a few weeks ago over a weekend, and I have started to sort of expand into that space a little bit, talking about the nomination of the first black female justice to the Supreme Court a couple of weeks ago, which I am so excited about. And that's just one of the things I'm trying to kind of move into that area as well. And it's very satisfying to say something that you think is important. It's not about you.

[00:15:41.270] - Lavinia

Right, right, absolutely. And you know what's sad on LinkedIn is that there are also people who will. So while this comes from a really good place, part of LinkedIn, I don't know, it's culture or something around it. It can push back against many people who talk about social change. So you can find yourself on the receiving end of lots of criticism around it as well. And I know a lot of particularly women of color on LinkedIn, have been struggling a lot with this of late. And LinkedIn is trying to step up to put in better controls. But yeah, as you start talking about this and as you start including, it also increases your network. Right. Because you suddenly start seeing all these people in your feed who are also interested in this space. And that's great. You get to build a much bigger community around these issues. But you'll also find those people on LinkedIn who are less than supportive, let's say always tell people, be aware and be ready to deal with it.

[00:16:51.430] - Annette 

Yeah, well, I can take it. I'm not a kid. I've been around. And it's so funny in a way, like I do steer away from being too political or something like that. But for things like we've just been talking about, I find personally, if someone sees that on LinkedIn and because of that, they don't want to hire me or work with me, well, that's fine. I'm good with that because it is important. Again, I've gotten an inspiration from you and from Moumita , another word that's kind of bandied about. And I think we've been kind of talking about that. And people here say, oh, engagement, LinkedIn Engagement is so important. So when it comes to engagement, what do people mean when they say, oh, LinkedIn Engagement, that's where it's at. What does that mean?

[00:17:49.490] - Lavinia

They mean the numbers. That's what they're talking about. What they mean is the numbers. Are you getting the likes? Are you getting the followers? Are you getting the connections? That's not what I think LinkedIn Engagement is around. I started off saying that it was really important to know why you're on the platform. And when you know your why of why you're on the platform, then you can measure the things that are important to you. When I teach people who are new to LinkedIn how to use the platform, they all want things to measure. So I show them the things that they can measure, all the various things you can measure on LinkedIn. But at the end of the day, the only measurement that matters is whether your purpose is being met. So for me, my number one purpose, when I first joined LinkedIn to establish some thought leadership, I wanted to be someone because I write on this issue and I wanted to be thought of as an expert in this space. So I started to write about it. And so for me, it's really important that I get found with the things that I write about.

[00:18:51.740] - Lavinia

So I prioritize that over many other things. I don't have the biggest following on LinkedIn. My posts don't always go viral. It doesn't matter to me. I am getting recognized for the things that I write about that are about things that matter to me. And that's what I'm looking for. And LinkedIn is excellent for being found for your thought leadership. So I know some people use medium and various other methods, but honestly, LinkedIn for me has been the single best way to establish thought, leadership. And the second thing I want to do is to be able to have a network that moves with me. My husband is a career diplomat, and we move around the world all the time. I need a mobile network. So that's the other important thing for me with LinkedIn, that I can take my network with me when I go somewhere else and I can grow it and still take it with me again for the next posting. So it's really those things that I count, but you should count the things that matter for you and what other people are talking about that's other people's. Linkedin your LinkedIn is your experience of LinkedIn.

[00:19:59.060] - Lavinia

So it's cut out the chatter.

[00:20:01.860] 

Focus on your purpose of being on LinkedIn and see if you're getting that met and keep adjusting what you're doing on LinkedIn until you get that met.

[00:20:11.030] - Annette 

Yeah, I love that. And for me, the most enjoyment, I will say is in the comments and in the direct messages and getting to know people like you. I mean, I've never met you. I met you on Clubhouse, we've engaged there and on LinkedIn. And right now I feel so grateful for the people I know all over the world who are part of my community or my tribe. And the central focus is LinkedIn. It's LinkedIn. I'd like to talk to you and ask you to give us some maybe some tips around change. Now, I know your TEDx talk was titled Embrace the Crazy. And for people listening, I'd like to mention that I just found out that your newsletter on LinkedIn is also titled Embarrassed the Crazy. I didn't know you had that. I just subscribed this morning when I found that. So if you're not subscribed already, please do, because there's tons of great information. But one of the things you talk about is the challenges and the most challenges of change. And I find as I get older, I don't embrace change the way I did in my 20s. Like, yeah, whatever. It was just like, go where the wind takes me.

[00:21:37.490] - Annette 

But if you could just share maybe just a couple of the common emotional barriers that people have when it comes to change and how they can kind of, I don't know, address or overcome them.

[00:21:51.710] - Lavinia

Yeah. Look, I'm with you. I'm no spring chicken myself. And I feel that the more we move each time it gets hotter, we have no choice. This is part of our life. We move every four years and we move internationally. So it's always an unknown place that we're going to go to. It's interesting, but we have this very privileged move, too, because we get very supported through our move. So I can't complain about it, but it does make you very good at getting used to change. And a lot of what I teach about change now comes from just watching, constantly watching. Of course it work, but also the real lives of people who have to live this life. Some people are just much more successful at it than others. This kind of life, it breaks families up, it breaks marriages up, it breaks people down because it's very hard to keep moving when you don't have a support system, when you go to a new place and you have to start all over again.

[00:22:54.800] 

So a lot of my knowledge about change is learnt but also a lot of it just from experience.

[00:23:01.200] - Lavinia

Just watching it happen over and over again. And the first thing that we teach our children, because our children have to deal with this life all the time. Yes, the first thing we teach them is there is no normal and it is the most important mindset shift that we all need to have, never mind normal is how I phrase it. And it's really important because if they look around and they think these kids have normal lives, but we come in and we have this weird life, they will never be able to fit in. But if they go around and if what they see is everybody has their own normal, that means they come from this entire mindset of everything is normal, nothing is normal and everything is normal. My kids will tell you they're weird. They'll come up and say, yeah, we're the weird kids, it's okay. They don't think anything different of it. Our children have different colors. Like our oldest star is blond haired and blue eyed and we have the youngest one is like sort of, I don't know, Latte Macchiato. We have different kinds of coffee in our house or Starbucks.

[00:24:05.230] - Lavinia

Like, what color do you want? We have a mix and they're wildly different. They don't even look like siblings naturally. So you wouldn't look at the five of them and say, okay, this is a family, they look like brothers and sisters, they don't. And so they're so used to family being different as well. And what they consider normal in terms of family, what they consider normal in terms of lifestyle, it's different for everyone. And I think that's the most important mindset shift for a lot of people, everything is normal and nothing is normal. Having that as teaching that to our children young makes them very accepting as they go along in the world. So I think that's how our kids keep your sanity.

[00:24:47.730] - Annette 

That is just mind blowing for me and it is so true. And I think part of that too is you never know what's going on in other people's lives either. Social media is one of those places where people put whatever they put. And I love you're saying about that too, the different types of social media where people on LinkedIn, everybody's successful. And what is it, Facebook? Everybody's happy. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, what families are like. But I love that idea, especially today in the times we live in the past, few years has been so I think different, but it's just traumatic for the world. And the idea of just getting into that and thinking that there's no normal, I think can be a saving Grace for people because, you know, tough, tough to think about.

[00:26:02.060] - Lavinia

Well, you know, Maya Angelou has this great saying. If you're always trying to be normal, you'll never know how amazing you can be. And it's really very true. While you're holding on to normal, you'll never, ever know how amazing life can be or how amazing you can be. So it's really very powerful just letting go of this and especially in these difficult times.

[00:26:26.630] - Annette 

Thank you for that, because I am a big fan of hers, and I had not heard that before. I'm familiar with a couple of the others. People will remember how you make them feel, not what you say or do or whatever the actual quote is. And very wise woman. Very wise woman. So as I was looking at your LinkedIn profile before, we were having this call today, I see that you have kind of spent your career in communications, like started with PR, and it hasn't been like a straight line, but it's been kind of a weavy not like all over the place. And what drew you to that, to have that as your career?

[00:27:14.870] - Lavinia

Yeah. Look, I have not had a linear career at all. And I think one of the big learnings that I've been able to be successful, even though I had this super secure route. And the reason I had a securitus route through my career is because of this constantly having to move and you can't really build a linear career when you're doing that. So my husband has a linear career, and he is the last, I think, that will ever have. I think his generation will be the last to ever have a linear career. He joined the Foreign Ministry as his first job, and he will leave and he will retire from the Foreign Ministry. And he would have done pretty much just that all throughout his career. And this just does not exist anywhere else anymore. And that's over, even in traditional careers like diplomacy. So that's not going to happen again. So for me, I was drawn to it because communication was just natural for me. I come from a legal background. I'm a lawyer by training, and I accidentally fell into my first job in communications. It was a complex role that required someone who could take complex things and make them simple.

[00:28:24.520] - Lavinia

And that I discovered I had a bit of a skill with so taking complicated things, making them simple, and that's what I did. And then I realized I kind of know how to do this. And so I started to learn I put myself into different roles where I could learn different things about branding and communications. So that's what I've been doing all this time. And then, of course, when this move with the pandemic, it did allow me to also have a digital business now, a business where this what you see here, this is where I deliver talks. This is where I deliver trainings. This is it. This is where I do everything and I can reach the world with it. It's so amazing. I live in all of the technology that we have and that allows us to do this. I did a program at Oxford last about two years ago. And I'll tell you one of the interesting things. All the women in the room, they were all women in very high ranking positions. There was a woman who was heading she was the postmaster general for her country. There were women who headed hospitals.

[00:29:25.040] - Lavinia

And all of us were asked to draw our career journey. And when we all held it up, there were no journeys like this. None. Not the one. No woman in that room had a journey like this because our lives don't go like that. Women don't get that option. We have to do a few loops at least, especially if we have families. So it was interesting. I wasn't the only one. And for all the women, if you're watching this and you don't have a linear career journey, it's okay. It's more common than you think.

[00:29:59.810] - Annette 

So when you talk about this and actually, I've heard you mentioned being a lawyer and it had slipped my mind. Did you practice law for a bit before you got into PR?

[00:30:12.710] - Lavinia

No, I never practiced. I was qualified in Australia and in the UK, I'm very qualified, but I never practiced. I didn't enjoy it. I did a lot of work experience in what they call and I clocked and I didn't enjoy it even slightly. And later on, I went to work for law school. And then I realized I would have enjoyed academia. So if I'd had that option, if I thought about it at the time, I might have gone on to stay in the law because I enjoyed studying law. I might have stayed on and gone into becoming an academic in the law because I enjoyed the study. I just didn't enjoy the practice.

[00:30:54.080] - Annette 

Yeah, well, at least I found because my career has been very zigzagging as well. But I found that things that I picked up in other careers, other positions, they kind of feed together and make you. And I have to say, although I say this in people, I think sometimes think I'm crazy. A lot of what I learned just working with people I got when I was a server and a bartender back in my twenties, and I learned how to deal with people, different types of temperaments. And one thing that saddens me and I'll get off this tangent, but it saddens me is people have often little respect for people in service type positions. And those are so important and difficult positions in so many ways. So it just made me think of that. Now I do want to turn to and you had mentioned earlier launching this new, I guess, training Lavinia's club. And you've launched that recently, I believe. So what was kind of the emphasis behind you starting that and who is it for and who's this design for?

[00:32:16.160] - Lavinia

Thank you. Thank you for asking. So it's just launched. Today is the first day that the first lessons have gone out to people who enrolled in the course. Today is the very first day. So exciting. So I started the chorus because I realized a lot of people were getting very bad advice about LinkedIn. And you must know this too, because when people come across your desk, you see they've been given such bad advice about LinkedIn. And I know LinkedIn can be powerful. I built my business with LinkedIn and being a bad salesperson, and I don't mean it in any other way. I don't have anything against sales. I'm just not good at it. And if I wasn't good at LinkedIn, I would have no business like zero. There would be nothing happening for me. But because I'm good at LinkedIn, what I was able to do was rely on inbound leads. And I know people can do that and I know it's possible I've done it myself. So I want people to be successful on LinkedIn, whether they're looking for a career, whether they want to grow their business, they can do it with LinkedIn, but they need to be a little bit smart about it.

[00:33:20.590] - Lavinia

They can't be listening to these fly by night teachers about LinkedIn who have no clue. Honestly, everyone's a LinkedIn trainer. And then you go to their profile and they have like, I don't know, 700 followers and three posts. And I'm like, they're teaching people how to do this. You don't need millions of followers. You really don't be successful in LinkedIn. Linkedin is not a numbers game, but you do need a critical mass and you do need to have some credibility on the platform. It's a high trust platform. People trust what's happening on LinkedIn more than they do on any other platform. So you want to turn up with the highest level of integrity on this platform. And when you don't, they will notice. People notice these things. People are making these judgments, even if they're not saying it to your face. They're making these judgments and they're putting you in a category of untrustworthy if you're doing things like that. I saw so much of this going on, so I decided I know there are lots of great LinkedIn trainers that we know and the ladies of LinkedIn are all fantastic, fantastic at LinkedIn. And we give this advice for free on clubhouse.

[00:34:32.150] - Lavinia

Whenever you come and see us, we'll give this advice for free. But I noticed people needed a structured program, and since I was doing it for companies already, I decided I would make it available to people to just download whenever they want it to. And so that's what I've been doing, just teaching how you use LinkedIn in a sensible way so that you can grow. I don't promise people a hundred times whatever. There's none of that. Linkedin requires you to put in some effort, and any trainer can only give you the roadmap. We can't drive the journey for you. So you're going to have to put in some of the work. But I do break it down as much as possible so that people can think about it in different ways. And people need to think about it in different ways.

[00:35:15.010] - Annette 

I love that. And I was laughing because I see that as well. People in my business, I'm kind of working under the umbrella of branding now. But resumes and LinkedIn profiles, files that I go to people who like me, I go to their LinkedIn profile and they don't have a background shot. How are they teaching somebody else when they don't know even the basics? And so I applaud that because there is there's so much bad advice out there. And I see some people that I'm not going to get into naming names, but just like nationally syndicated columnist who tell job seekers things like, well, you don't need to tell anybody if they ask you about salary. I mean, it's like, yeah, okay. Or the people that say you need to post on LinkedIn seven days a week and things like that. So it is so crazy. Some of the things that we both hear about there about LinkedIn in particular. And I'm so excited for your course, checking it out myself, because what you do and I just want you to share because you're not someone who posts, like constantly on LinkedIn. Right. And you are the person who actually inspired me to start posting long form articles a few months ago because I used to do it.

[00:36:54.710] - Annette 

And then I was like, yeah. And when I did it, I started doing it again. And then, of course, we got newsletter, which has been great for me. So talk a little bit about what people can do. And I'm sorry, I'm having trouble phrasing this question. But I get it.

[00:37:16.910] - Lavinia

I know what you're asking. I got the question because I hang out with Annette. I get to hang out with Annette once a week. So I get what she's asking. So there's all kinds of content you can put up on LinkedIn. You should find the content that you are comfortable posting. If you like to write, write.

[00:37:35.920] - Annette 

If you like to do video, do video. If you like to.

[00:37:39.430] - Lavinia

What is it you like doing? You take good photos, post the photos, accompany your posts with those photos. You're good at storytelling and turning like a drive down the street into a life lesson. Do that. Do what you are good at. Don't let anyone persuade you. You must do this. You must do that. There is no must. Your audience is different to my audience, different to another person's audience. All of us have a different kind of audience and we have different skills. This is the magic of LinkedIn. You can be who you want to be. It's not like TikTok, where if you don't know how to dance and you don't know how to transition this way and that way, then it's not going to work. It's not like that at all. You can just be the person that you want to be. I'm not a video person. I'm pretty good at audio, and I'm very good at writing. So this is what I'm good at. This is my happy place. And so with LinkedIn, I'm allowed to write long form content. So I do. I've been writing articles on LinkedIn for a long time, and I've had the newsletter function for a bit longer.

[00:38:41.640] - Lavinia

And I have found it very worthwhile. This is where I get most of my clients from. When I write articles, I guarantee I get a client because someone's looking out for that kind of content. And I write articles that are not very long. I write them around. I don't know about 800 words, 1200 words, Max, but I break them down into either listicles or how to or mistakes. And these are easy to consume information, but valuable to people, makes them think a little bit about whether they're doing it the way they should be or whether it's and it's something maybe that prompts some thinking in people. So make sure that if you like to write posts will get you better engagement. Like engagement, the numbers, right? So if you want numbers.

[00:39:26.330] - Annette 

Do it as a post.

[00:39:29.890] - Lavinia

If you want people who are going to be regularly looking at your information and reading in depth, then go with newsletters. Because right now, instead of articles, you're better off doing it with newsletters because people can subscribe. So whatever works for you, go with that. And that's how you can be and you're successful. What you're good at. That's the thing.

[00:39:55.610] - Annette 

Yeah, that is so true. And I've had newsletter for a few months, but I see it. I monitor it. It goes up a little bit every time, every time I publish. And it's a great thing. So I wanted to pop up on Gabe, actually, I was in the clubhouse with him earlier today, and we were talking about you, Lavinia. And I was saying how excited I was to have you here. And he's like, oh, yes, you're so lucky to get her. So thank you so much for coming by. And as he said, his happy place is in front of the camera. And I've actually learned to I don't know that I love myself in front of the camera, but I have gotten to the point where it doesn't faze me. I just don't care anymore. I put out a video, and I don't worry because I kind of am who I am. I want to look my best, of course, but I am who I am. So, you know, we've talked a lot about different topics. And I have a question before I ask this kind of my last question. You've been doing a lot the whole new LinkedIn Audio.

[00:41:04.050] - Annette 

And I just like your thoughts on that because I know you've been on Clubhouse and you do Twitter Spaces, which are really cool. I've been on a couple of those and LinkedIn Audio. And how do you see all this audio stuff kind of shaking out?

[00:41:21.630] - Lavinia

I think shaking out is exactly what's going to happen. I think there's going to be a Rumble, but I don't know who's going to win. I'll tell you right now, today I think Twitter Spaces is the most fun to use, especially if you're hosting. It's also fun if you drop in on a call on some of these rooms. It is actually for me right now the most fun. There are some very toxic spaces. I'll tell you, honestly, there are some very toxic spaces out there on Twitter, but you can avoid those easily. I find it easy to set up, easy to run, very discoverable. People can find just rooms very easily. It's super simple. So I really like Twitter Spaces in terms of what engagement and growth and all of that. I find Twitter Spaces is great then LinkedIn Audio is very clunky for the host, especially. I'm not doing any of the hosting because I don't have the patience for this. It's very clunky. I thank everyone who's invited me on to the LinkedIn Audio Space because I know for the host it's a lot of work. There is not a lot of opportunity for them to participate.

[00:42:34.330] - Lavinia

Sometimes they're really essentially gatekeepers. They're this way that way because they can't bring people up there constantly. It's actually kind of a lot of work. It's not that they can't. Of course they can say things, but they're constantly like, you can't focus on your thoughts and thinking things through when you're constantly gatekeeping and moving people from here to there. So I find it. I'm not playing around with LinkedIn Audio. I'm going to wait till LinkedIn sort that out and then I'll be there. But what I am very excited about, LinkedIn is going to have a new event structure coming out, some new exciting event stuff happening. So I'm much more excited about that. I have a feeling that might be the game changer. I'm not sure LinkedIn Audio will be the big game changer, but at least not until they sort it out a little bit better. I know a lot of us have our audiences on LinkedIn and so we want to do audio with them. But I'm not sold on it right now. And Clubhouse is losing its luster. I enjoyed it very much last year and I got to meet wonderful people like you.

[00:43:44.320] - Lavinia

And last year Clubhouse was on fire and this year. It's just like sinking, man.

[00:43:49.160] - Annette 

Yeah, I know. I have a little club and I used to be three rooms a week and then it was two rooms a week and it was one room a week. And I'm kind of like moving that to Twitter spaces. And I'm thinking the event because I've heard little bits. I think you hear more than I do, but I hear little bits that when you do LinkedIn Live that you'll be able to have a live audience with you to actually ask you questions live.

[00:44:17.250] - Lavinia

That's what I understand. It's going to be much, much more interactive and also you'll be able to do things like ticket events and also be able to have some of the networking. Do you remember the old events on LinkedIn where you could do a lot more networking and now it's kind of gone?

[00:44:31.880] - Annette 

Yeah.

[00:44:32.760] - Lavinia

So a lot of those features, I think they're building into the new events. I haven't seen it myself, so I don't know what's happening, but I do know it's going to be that's the big thing that they're working on, LinkedIn Audio was one of the things that they launched early, but I think it's the events thing that's going to be the big game changer. So let's see what happens with that. And I think they really need to do a better job of rolling it out much quicker while people are still excited they can't do this beta testing and this long drawn out window.

[00:45:02.610] - Annette 

Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you. So I want to be respectful of your time and we're really kind of sort of at the end there. But I just like to ask before we sort of say goodbye, is there anything that I haven't asked you that we think that I should have you have some final thoughts that you just like to share for people watching now and then on the replay and also on the podcast later on.

[00:45:32.490] - Lavinia

Thank you so much, Annette, for having me on here. You asked such great questions. I've so enjoyed this conversation. I haven't even noticed the passage of time. So thank you very much for having me on your show. This is so fantastic. And if there's one thought I'd like to leave you with about LinkedIn and about personal branding, it's that if you approach it with a little bit of a spirit of generosity and I know everyone's out there to sell themselves and to sell a product or whatever it is you're out there for. But if you just put that aside just for a moment and just approach it with a spirit of what can you do to change things for someone else? And if you think about it in that way, if you do it without necessarily always having a call to action, always having your pitch in there, always putting in your website, really don't always confuse people like that. So sometimes your message is just your message. It might have no call to action at all. It might just be something that's there to help someone through the day. It might be something to help someone think differently, change their mind about something.

[00:46:40.520] - Lavinia

And those thoughts are also precious and those ideas are also very valued so approach. Sometimes your content have a structure, have a strategy, but put in a little bit of generosity in there because that's really what will help you stand out in the sea of sameness.

[00:46:56.850] - Annette 

I love that that is a perfect way to end. Thank you so much. Thank you to everyone who's been here. I know we've had some people watching us and the comments, I wasn't getting them right away. But have a great rest of your day. Day. Have a great weekend. It's been so fun to be here and I thank you again so much for being here with me.