How to Boost Your Professional Image (And Your Personal Brand)

Estelle Winsett, Career Development Expert, Attorney, and Style Coach, and Annette Richmond, Certified Master Resume Writer, discuss how to boost your professional image and enhance your personal brand. (Please note: there are a couple of glitches in the video as we had some technical difficulties during the LIVE program.) 

Topics include:
✔️ How to plan a job search wardrobe
✔️ Shopping on a budget (it's all about the fit)
✔️ What to wear for virtual interviews 
✔️ Dressing for career advancement 
✔️ How to uncover "your" style

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Transcript

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Intro (00:06):

Hi, I'm Annette Richmond. Thank you for joining me for this episode of the smarter career moves podcast. Don't forget to join us in the smarter career moves club. I'm good house as well.

 Annette (00:29):

Thank you everyone for hanging in there with us as we resolve our technical difficulties I'm so excited to be here with Estelle. So why don't you start again and just tell people a little bit about what you do?

Estelle (00:44):

Absolutely. So my background is as an attorney, I practiced law for about seven years here in Memphis, where I'm from did civil litigation. And then I got into this recruiting space. And so I became a legal recruiter for a company where I placed lawyers and paralegals. And then I was Dean of career services at University of Memphis law school. And that was super fun. And now I am the director of professional development at a law firm here in Memphis as well. And it's wonderful. And then, the other thing you'd have to talk about is I do help women. I'm really passionate about helping women empower themselves through style. So that's the thing that I do on the side on the weekends, things like that. So I but I love talking about anything career-related style-related anything that you can do to boost yourself up and to go after your dreams, so happy to be here.

 Annette (01:43):

Well, I'm so excited, I was so excited when I met you on clubhouse a while ago, and I know we spent some time there and, it's, it's so true, I think the whole idea of the image, the clothing you wear, how you present yourself, your hair and, everything, it, it's what people see, but it's also how you feel that I please, is, is a really big, different, so one of the things that, I find from, being a resume writer is people just jump into a job search, I think, oh, I think I'm going to just start looking for a job. they don't worry about the resume or LinkedIn profile. And then all of a sudden somebody contacts them and says, where is it? And I'm guessing that people are like that with their clothing as well. they're like, okay, they reach into the closet and they pull out whatever it was that they wore. I don't know, 10 years ago, maybe or five years ago. So what would somebody, I'm now thinking, what, I'm going to look for a new job, what should I do as far as like wardrobe goes,

Estelle (02:57):

Well, I think you need to do an of your current order probe and, things that you want to look for is, is it in good condition? Is there anything about the clothing that's dated?  When you buy things that are investment pieces, they tend to stand the test of time. And so those kinds of pieces will last for years. But anything that looks dated fit is super important. It's actually the most important thing in my opinion, and having great style so more than cost it's, it's do the clothes fit you well. And that's when people really look sharp and professional and that's when they're, they're looking their best. But yeah, I would do an assessment of what you have. How do you feel that's another, like you said, that's a gut check. Does it make you feel powerful if it, if you're wearing something that makes you feel like you were 10 years ago and you were in a, less advanced position, then that's probably not what you want to be wearing. So it's really just about showing it polished and professional and feeling good and confident. So,

 Annette (04:04):

As I recall, we talked about this before,  if someone is on a budget, I think you mentioned the idea that,          , if you can, you can spend less, but have it tailored or, how does that work and what should they look for and how cheap can they go?

Estelle (04:20):

Obviously, if you want to look for deals, it's great. If something is marked down, but it was a higher price before then that's a good thing.  I always tell people to buy the best quality they can afford. But really, yeah, it, it would be more worth it to buy something a little bit cheaper, but have it fit you impeccably by going to a tailor, then just spend a lot of money on something that doesn't fit you very well, because then it's going to look like you're wearing your mom's clothes, or it's just not, it's, it's just not giving the authority and trust at powerhouse. Look that you're going for it.

 Annette (04:53):

Yeah. it's funny, I go up and down on the scale and if people send to, if they're feeling like, oh, I need to lose a few pounds, they'll wear something that's bigger. And the way that makes them look worse. So when, when someone is, is getting ready for the job interview, how do they gauge, like how formal or informal they should be? I've when I worked in corporate, you're sitting there in a casual office and somebody walks in and, they're, they're looking for a job and you're wondering if it's your job, but,          , so how do people gauge, is it better to be more formal or less, or,

Estelle (05:32):

Yeah, I would always rather be overdressed and underdressed because there's nothing worse than seeing you're going in for a job interview. You're trying to put your best foot forward and you're everyone in the room is wearing a suit and you're wearing, casual pants. I mean, that's not going to make you feel good. But if you're more dressed up you're gonna feel more polished and professional, as a general rule, yeah. You probably want to look online and check out the company and gauge you can gauge somewhat maybe what the culture is, but, if you're trying to present, this is your first impression, then I would say, wear a suit. I don't think you can go wrong. Unless they tell you repeatedly, we're very, very, very casual. And, that's one thing that they'd make a big deal about it before you go in, but I just think first impressions matter and I'd rather be overdressed.

 Annette (06:25):

So, so you're, I mean, guessing you're saying a suit for men and womenI see women a lot of them on TV, where they're the, the suit is, seems to  by, the sheath with the jacket or something that, that matches. So, which is it, I mean, is it like skirts? Is it pants or does it really matter? Or, yeah,

Estelle (06:47):

That's a good question. For me in legal that comes up a lot, like, is it is a pant suit okay. Versus a skirt suit. Of course I'm in the south. And so, I think as a, if you're willing to be super conservative, I would go with a skirt suit just until you, cause you don't feel like that's like a, don't think that you could find any objection to that. But I think pants suits are probably fine too. But yeah, if you're trying to gauge, I think something conservative because you don't know these people yet. And you don't know you haven't physically been there and know what other people around are wearing. So I think I would just, go with that and that you're right. A lot of people, and I think women in particular, we have so many things that we can wear, which is what I think is super fun because you can wear a dress and a jacket over it, or you can wear different things. And I don't think there's anything wrong. If you have a black dress and a blazer that's conservative, you can wear that. But I still think, I would wear a blazer, a blouse and a skirt. So yeah, that's what I think just to be on the safe side,

 Annette (07:53):

I hear you andI, I think it's always better in that situation to be overdressed rather than underdressed, but no, I've also heard because, people I've done this myself. I have had a big interview coming up. So I went and I bought a new outfit and I have heard that it's not a good idea to wear something that's, that's brand new. Because, you might be uncomfortable in it. So, what do you advise new, not new.

Estelle (08:29):

I think that whatever you, where you need to practice, like sitting down in it seeing if you're comfortable yeah. Especially with women, like, do you feel like if you're wearing a skirt, is it hitting you at the right spot in there? Do you feeling like very comfortable then I think you could wear it. So from that perspective, I don't think it necessarily matters. If it's new or not, it's just but you want it to be one thing that is another, just point that, I mean, you want it to be very pressed in steam. Like you don't want to be wrinkled, wrinkled is bad. So, and you don't have to spend a ton of money. I mean, you can          , hang something up in the shower or get a steamer for relatively inexpensive, but I think that's super, super important. Did I see a question? Do we want to address that Tom

 Annette (09:18):

In the audience says that, being overdressed can cause the interviewer to feel uncomfortable? Like you're interviewing it, I guess a tech company like Google or Facebook. So what do you say about that?

Estelle (09:32):

Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I think where you're interviewing is important and if the culture is known for being very casual and they tell you that and that's what it is then you want to respect that. So you're right. There's sometimes if it's, if it's Google and it's, everyone knows it's a really casual place, then maybe you don't want to wear a suit. Or if you're a gentleman,  maybe you don't want to wear a tie, but you can bring a jacket. So I just think that in general, as a general role, I would rather feel a little bit more overdressed than underdressed. 

 Annette (10:10):

I've, I've also heard people say that,  you can ask like HR, what's the, what's the dress code or something Australia, no. Before you, before you go there. So

Estelle (10:22):

And a lot of my experience does come from the legal setting, both in a law firm or, things like that. So there are, you want to know the dress code for wherever it is you are, and if it's super casual, you want to, not go into have power.

 Annette (10:37):

So go. Okay, great. So one thing that, virtual interviews, when I was recruiting, in 2012, quite a while, it was a decade ago people were already doing virtual interviews even for local candidates because it was easier. It was more convenient for everybody. And although everything has been really, really, only virtual until  recently were we, you wouldn't meet anybody in person, unless you were maybe the one of the last two. Is there any before we get to, we have some questions here, but before we get to that is there a difference, do you recommend for virtual? I mean, cause I know when you're on video, stripes can look weird, you see people on TV and they're not broadcasters, but guests and the ties are all weird and

Estelle (11:32):

Yeah, you definitely don't anything that's distracting and you're right. Certain patterns can, can look psychedelic on the screen. So I always recommend do a dry run, get a just practice on zoom and see how you show up in the screen. Because that way you can see if there's something super distracting and, and make sure that the image you see in the box. Cause that's, they're going to say, so I definitely do a dry run for that. Okay.

 Annette (11:56):

So, so Tom is asking if you can dress too sexy. Now he, Tom is a he D he has a resume writing area and also a recruiting area as this Michelle, who's also in the audience. And I think that's part of where their questions are coming. So he wants to know if women can be too sexy and in that can, can be a problem and how to avoid that.

Estelle (12:20):

Yeah. I definitely think that could be a problem when you're going into an interview, it's definitely different from going on a date. You are there for, in a professional capacity. And so I think, yeah, you definitely want to be mindful of that. So I conservative is the way to go in an interview in all respects, in my opinion. Okay. Hopefully that answered it.

 Annette (12:44):

Okay. Yeah, I think so. And Michelle also said that it's regional, as you had already mentioned iSTYLE that she's in Austin and they never ever wear suits. So, legal or finance. So, I guess it really does make a difference. I know I worked for actually a CPA firm for a while and it was, it was, you couldn't like jeans weren't allowed and yet I worked in publishing, and everybody was in jeans all the time. So we definitely does make it make a difference, but that's what, and I think you and I had talked about this in clubhouse, the idea that the regionally it can be different in the south being more conservative. I know when I've talked to you before I'm here in the Northeast, I live 60 minutes from New York city and today I just, I didn't wear black, but so I'm gray and a black, but people tend to tend to dress that way. And how can people, I mean, you just base it on where you live. Do you have any tips on regional differences?

Estelle (13:58):

Yeah. I mean, I think every region or area has its culture as does every industry. So, like I said, my background is in law, which is very conservative. But  think that like you said, you could go to HR to ask for questions. You could, I mean, I, I don't know. I guess my, my, my answer is, I'm not sure there is a definitive answer to that. I think it just depends on where you are and trying to get a good lay of the land and asking people ask peers that that work in the industry that's always helpful. Tell them what you're doing, ask them what is the standard, that kind of thing.

 Annette (14:40):

It sounds then more than that, based on what you're saying, and based on what Michelle also said in her comment is it's more industry related than regional.

Estelle (14:52):

And I think Sam,

 Annette (14:53):

Which is different than what I had read, several years ago that that regional industries were really different. So one thing that I, I also think about when I mentioned the idea that someone comes in and,          if you're working at a job and you have an interview, even if it's a virtual interview, or if you have to go to an interview right after work or in your lunch hour. So how do you work that in to your wardrobe so that you're not going into your current job and people looking at you going, oh, okay. And that has an interview today with somebody else.

Estelle (15:32):

Yeah. I think that ifyou're going to be interviewing that you should kind of step up your game a little bit before that interview so that it's not such a drastic change. If you're someone who doesn't dress up or,          , have leave the blazer in your car for, if you're going to an interview and not wear it into the office. Yeah. I think you want to be cognizant of that. And even if it means changing after you leave, if it's that drastic of a change, then do it. Cause you do want to you don't want it to be such a drastic change that everyone knows you're going on an interview. Yeah.

 Annette (16:07):

Yeah. So maybe we're in slacks a couple of days a week instead of the jeans everyday just subs,          , working in a few a few more, I don't know, stepping it up, but, but in a, in a gradual way. So it's not all of a

Estelle (16:24):

Sudden boom. Yup.

 Annette (16:26):

So one, one of the things too is we, I think we've all heard the phrase dress for success and rest for the job you want and  all of that type of thing. And what about when you're in corporate? And one of the things that people that I talk to, I tell them you have to make sure that your boss knows what you do. You have to make sure that you're having your resume ready, even if you're trying to get a promotion because external people are going to,  your competition. And if you're thinking you start off at a company and you're thinking what, next year, or in this next six months I'm going to be looking to get promoted in something. What are some steps you can take?

Estelle (17:14):

Yeah. I mean, you can start upleveling what you wear, even though you're in a certain position, you want to go to a higher position. Anyone can, elevate their overall look again and again, that comes back to feeling confident and what you're wearing. And knowing maybe you could go try to find something,          , Nordstrom's has some personal stylers. Maybe you can go there and just have them help you if you're not sure that what you have is, is flattering there's so many things that go into fit,  so you want to make sure that your clothes are fitting you well. And that you feel comfortable and confident that that really is. And like you're saying earlier, and I really believe this so much of, of style and how you present yourself.

Estelle (17:58):

It's how it affects you internally. Because a lot of times when we were in the pandemic, working from home, I was dressing up for myself. So I knew I'm going to work now. It's not very motivating to go to,          , even though you could just go from the bedroom to the next room, over to hop on your laptop, it's not motivating if I'm sitting in pajamas all day for me. So I think that so much of it is, is what you're telling yourself through what you wear that you, that what you're doing matters. It is important. That kind of thing.

 Annette (18:28):

Yeah. I plead guilty of that. I guilty of that took embarrassingly enough, took to going out and my slippers during the height of the pandemic, but that's, that's another story. So since you brought that up, what, what are some things that people who work from home?   because a lot of people, I think maybe working from home more often, maybe a couple of days a week how do, how do people motivate themselves in and what should they have for their wardrobe for at home?

Estelle (19:02):

Yeah. Well you want to be comfortable and I get that. And a lot of people say that. And the thing that I always try to tell people is that you can be comfortable and professional looking. You just need to know what types of fabrics to wear and what things to buy. So for me, like one fabric that I think is amazing is called Ponti it's P O N T E. And it's like a synthetic, but we feel like you're wearing pajamas. It doesn't wrinkle, but it looks put together. So,  I would recommend having some pants that are in this Ponti material so that you are actually wearing pants, but you're comfortable. And I think that you want to have an outfit that you want to get, you don't want to wear what you wear to bed. So it's not, I feel like it's not going to be sending yourself the right message.

Estelle (19:53):

But yeah, you could wear pants if you have zoom calls, you could have a couple of blazers that you throw one or even a cardigan something I always tell people that like the third, if you have a third piece, that's what tends to put an outfit, like what creates a finishing touch. So for example, if you have a lot of blouse and skirt throw a jacket on all of a sudden you have an outfit, or even if you throw a cardigan, like there's something magical that happens when you get a third element that makes it everything come together and look polished and professional. So I think you want to have some of those third elements for when you do have the zoom calls, but you don't, if you're just working in your house by yourself all day without zoom calls, I don't think you have to walk around with a blazer on.

 Annette (20:34):

So no, I agree and I try occasionally to step up a bit if I'm, if I'm on a call with a potential client, although by the same token, I want to be myself. So I have a pink denim jacket like that. I wear sometimes that,          , it's a little bit more formal than the t-shirt, but it's not really like me and a blazer would not be the impression I would want to show to my clients because that's just not me and we're working pretty closely together. So so what where where's a place to shop then you mentioned Nordstrom,          , having personal stylists. I mean, that does a lot of little pricey for, for a lot of people. What about somebody who's, , maybe earlier in their career or mid career and it's not that they have, have no money. They know that they have to go to like Walmart and, and buy something for their job interview, but where can people shop where it's mid price, but they can find decent long-wearing at, you entioned sort of a capsule outfits where can people shop for things like that. It and, and the second part would be, do you recommend online buying, buying these online?

Estelle (21:55):

Yeah, I think online is the way to go mainly because nowadays a lot of stores don't have all the sizes in when you go in person anyway. And so you're, maybe not be able to try something on that's in your size. But to answer the first question in terms of where to go, I think if you're wanting to kind of reasonable prices, but still things that are gonna look nice. I think Macy's is a great one. Macy's is always having sales, always you could go to TJ max and find good things there too you kinda have to know what you're looking for in some of those stores, but like Macy's for sure is going to have professional looking clothes at good deals. They're always having sales, you can bring in coupons. So I think that would be if price was concerned, but you wanted to look sharp. That would be my recommendation.

 Annette (22:43):

Okay. And they have, I'm sure a lot of robust shopping online

Estelle (22:49):

And they have a plus section and a petite section. So yeah.

 Annette (22:54):

Any other any companies like online companies this, this may be just way off base, but I know even Amazon has their own basic clothing line. Now, are there any sites or companies that you would, would recommend that people might want to just check out for, workable interview or just work clothes?

Estelle (23:17):

Yeah. you're right. I mean, Amazon has that prime wardrobe thing where you can try things on without having to pay and then send back what you don't want. A lot of people swear by that and finding places there you can also find things like Nordstrom rack. And so a lot of times when you are doing like the big box stores like that, you do want to kind of know what you're looking for, because it could get overwhelming if you're it's a huge online strict, but you could look in the suits department or you could look wherever you can type in blazer and just near your source. But yeah, like Nordstrom rack, another really good place that has reasonable prices a store called universal standard. And they have sizes from,         very, very small to large, much larger plus us. And they have very conservative. A lot of it's more basic. You're not gonna see a lot of prints. It's a lot of solids, but they tend to have sales too, and it's a lot of the comfortable materials. So that's, that's a fine that I found in the last year that I really liked. So yeah, it's called universal standard. I

 Annette (24:22):

Just wrote that down. So that's an online store, so that's great and, and the thing about, about          , solids is that you can really mix them up and rewear them and maybe go to a couple of interviews, nobody's going to notice if you're wearing that same black blazer two or three times. So one thing I want to mention you, I was at the dentist recently, and I think I, I mentioned this, I think I messaged you about this. And my dentist said that he has really seen over the pandemic, a real upswing in cosmetic dentistry because people are on zoom all day looking at themselves and they don't like what they see, because like right now we're see, or we're looking at each other, we're looking at ourselves when you're on, you're looking at yourself. And he said he seen a real uptick and that makes me think that probably dermatologists are seeing an uptick as well for people maybe wanting to get a little injectable or something like that. What's your take on that? Do you hear, have you heard anything like that? Or what do you, what do you see? Yeah,

Estelle (25:36):

Because that's so individual how, like, if you wanted to do something like there's so many people who just don't want to do anything cosmetic surgery wise, they just want to do makeup or and kinda like what you were saying earlier. Like you just have to be you, I'm not someone that wears a ton of makeup. And so I'm not going to just slap her on a bunch because that's, that wouldn't be me, but I do want to make sure I'm groomed and you could do that whole, what is it? The, the zoom touch up. My appearance is always a nice little feature that you can do. Wow. Oh, I

 Annette (26:05):

Don't use zoom. I used to go to meetings. So I haven't seen that, but I heard about it that you can it's like people that have their LinkedIn profile photo and it's just like, it's so Photoshop though. It doesn't even look like them, which is , w which is which is a bad thing, but

Estelle (26:21):

You can go too far with

 Annette (26:22):

Some of that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So Stephanie was just saying that she has tried scheduling interviews in the morning so that you can change before she gets her job. And congratulations. Definitely. She just got a new job recently, so, oh, wonderful. Kudos to her. Awesome. So talking about, about trends what are some wearable trends? Do you have any suggestions for, for men as well as women? I mean, we have primarily women here, but to be honest, most people watch LinkedIn live on the replace. So do you have any suggestions for, for both?

Estelle (27:05):

Well, when you say trends, do you mean things that are just popular right now that are more of the that you don't anticipate lasting? Is that what you're talking about when you say trends?

 Annette (27:16):

I guess? I think so. I'll give you an example. Over the, over the winter, like fake, like shearling kind of jackets were, I mean, things that you would wear in the house that even outsource and they were they're just made out of you wash it a couple of times, I've had mine and it's not going to be around next year, but it was kind of cool for that time. And not an interview outfit thing, but  what are  some, some, something that you might be able to add if you have a nice black suit or blazer or something, and,          , you want to look a little bit more up to date, particularly if you are maybe in tech or you're in publishing or fashion or something, marketing where people are thinking more about the whole image. What are your suggestions for something like that? I

Estelle (28:15):

Think the easiest way to incorporate trends into like a professional setting is through accessories and for men that's ties for women, it can be jewelry, scarves things that are going to be accent pieces that are fun and fresh, but that you're probably not going to want to spend just a ton of money on trends because that they may not fit. That's the whole purpose that they don't necessarily last. But it's, I always tell people too, if there's something that you love that may be trendy and you don't care, or that you just love it, get it and enjoy it. Right. I mean, but I think as a general rule, if you're trying to be very thoughtful with your budget and, but you do want to add some fun you can do earrings, you can do scarves, things like that, that are gonna just show some personality without breaking the bank and without totally overtaking the look.

 Annette (29:08):

Okay. it's funny. I just, I was just remembering years ago when I was working in publishing at the time and  broke and I bought a, it was a plastic fake crocodile, but not trying to look real. It was like a maroon kind of color. And I'll tell you, I carried that bag around. I had so many people compliment me on it. They were like, wow or a red bag or something that, that, notice. And I love that you were talking about going to TJ max. And there's another one I can't think of. And when, when I was first shopping them, I would have to drive to New York to Westchester to find them. And now these places, I think we have to TJ Maxx in my city that I live in. And when you go for something like that, you're going shopping. I've heard, and actually I've tried, and it was helpful to have a list of what I was looking for. So how do you create that list? How do you, when you go shopping, is that the best strategy and why?

Estelle (30:24):

Yeah. Always recommend having a list and being intentional when you go shopping. If you, especially, if you're trying to be conscious of your budget and, and all that what I recommend for people is when you do like a seasonal closet cleanse where you're getting rid of things that don't fit that are in poor condition, that kind of thing, then take an inventory if you have 20 blouses, but only one pair of pants or one skirt are only so many outfits, you can create, you got to have a mix of a foundational base of bottoms and tops and blazers and addresses and things like that. So when you do that kind of a great time to do is when there's a new season and you're going through and looking at your seasonal clothes, make a list of what is missing, where are the gaps in your wardrobe, and then go to the store with that list. And another thing that I think is helpful is I wouldn't recommend if you're really being conscious of the budget to buy things on sale, unless it's on your list. So how many times do we go in and be like, well, it's on sale and you get it. And it's just like something else you have hanging in your closet and you don't need it. And then you're like, oh, I should have bought something else. And now I don't have to wait guilty,

 Annette (31:37):

Guilty. OhI saved 40% and something that I didn't need and will never wear. And it's hanging in my closet and another if you can talk about some of the, cause that's a mistake, I'm glad you brought that up. I have occasionally I think other people do this as well. You, you find something you like and, a t-shirt with maybe a little, I don't know design element to it. It's not perfectly plain. And you buy like four colors, but you never wear any of them. You were like one, like I wear the black one, I have the lavender one and the white one's sitting in my closet. So how do you how do you keep yourself? It's, it's kind of like, I think you go to the grocery store, you go hungry and you buy everything. And how do? I, I'm certainly not a shopaholic and I don't love to close shop, but I just I'm I think I'm a bad shopper.

Estelle (32:35):

Well, it's funny you brought up the grocery store cause I think I had a quote other day that , going shopping without a list is like going to the grocery store when you're hungry, because you're going to make poor decisions. It's going to be what's on sale. What looks good in the moment? Let someone else tells you, you should get, even though you don't need it. So I think that's the, the, the most the best advice I could have is just to have an intentional list. And  there are, you could do YouTube videos and find like I have a professional wardrobe checklist that I have for women. Cause that's mainly who I style, but get, get a list somewhere, compile of like, what are the must haves I should have in my closet? And if you don't have that start there once you have your foundational pieces, then you can start adding in some more personality. But I think where I see women struggle the most is having too much of one thing and not enough of a well-rounded wardrobe. So the first things first would be to make sure you have your base of items and then start adding in more fun pieces.

 Annette (33:35):

So you mentioned that you do work with clients who work with primarily female clients. So when they come to you, what are the, what are the things they come to you for? Because whatever problems they have are probably problems that I have in so many other women have, I am guessing they're not like just individual to them.

Estelle (33:59):

Yeah. I would say the most common are, I'm very bored with what I have. My clothes don't reflect me or my personality. I wear black all the time and that's it. Or I keep wearing the same three outfits on repeat and I need to, I want to elevate my style. I want to feel more confident. That's a huge one. I want to feel more competent. I've just been promoted to a job, but my wardrobe doesn't reflect it. And I need to show up as someone who has authority and trustworthiness, and I want to feel more confident, powerful with what I'm wearing. Maybe people have lost or gained weight and so they need to reboot. And so they're ready at that point that they have to go ahead and get new clothes. They want to just do it. Right. and, and some people just say, I just don't know how to put things together. I think one of the biggest, well, one of the biggest requests is to look put together. And I think one of the biggest or one of the hardest things for a lot of women is creating an outfit, not knowing all the puzzle pieces and how that all fit together. So,

 Annette (35:00):

That's so true. And I use a lot of color on the resumes that I write, but I'm not a designer. And I don't know. So I go to Pinterest and I get, I have a bunch of color palettes and I use the color palette to make sure that the different colors that I'm using look good together because I don't know. So if, if someone goes shopping, if they, if they're, if they don't have you how, how do they know? Can you go to Pinterest and look for things you, I mean,

Estelle (35:34):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in fact, when I, with people, that's one of the first steps I have them do is go to Pinterest. It's kind of like when you work with an interior decorator or you, you look around and say, see what you like and what you don't like, because everyone has natural preferences. A lot of times people think, oh, I don't have a style or I didn't have the style. Jean. We do know certain things you like and things you don't, you just hadn't thought about it through that lens. And so going somewhere like Pinterest and just playing nice, not so serious like, do you like that pin and if you've ever played on Pinterest, if you find something, then it's going to give you a thousand pictures below. Like, if you like this, you might like that.

Estelle (36:10):

And then you can just kind of go on this little maze and tour and just pin, pin pins, but it's helped, don't think too hard about just pinning what you like, make a comment. Like, I like those shoes because if you get 50 pins, you're like, why did I pin that again?   Like, as you're pinning, I'd put a really quick note in it, but then it's like the puzzle pieces fit and you can sit back and look at a board that has 35 to 50 pins and you start to see trends and then you start to say, oh, it seems that I like this kind of look. And that's, that's where you can get ideas. And there are lots of YouTube, you can research  women's fashion or,          , whatever industry you're in, you can research that and probably find yeah, like YouTube videos or do it yourself that's another way to just scour, the Internet's huge, right? And there are lots of, lots of things you can find. It's, it's, it's really about, like, if you don't want to hire someone to do it for you, then the resource that you do have is time. It would just take you a little longer than someone who is an expert, but that certainly is a way to go about it. It

 Annette (37:13):

Sounds like the pinch was, sounds like the new version of ripping pages out of fashion magazines, which is exactly I'm old enough to remember that oh, we rip out the pages of the fashion magazine put them out on the floor. So with that, and , it does make a lot of sense, but what about  shopping,   should you go with somebody else? Is that saleswoman says, oh, it looks great on you. It could be me wearing magenta and they'd all, it looks fabulous.

Estelle (37:47):

Yeah. I think, well, you want to go shopping with someone who has fashion sense, number one, but number two, I mean, if you want to go with someone who is a straight shooter and will say, now you don't need that. You don't want a yes, man, when you're shopping and you don't know what you're doing, because that's not necessarily gonna give you that critical eye that you need. So and yeah, the other thing you could do is you're going alone. I mean, keep all your receipts and take some photos of yourself and outfits and go to a friend's. Does this look right? Do you think this works? Crowdsource, if you need to.

 Annette (38:23):

So any tips on organizing the closet, is that something that you do with your clients and I am one of those people I'll tell you, it's a terrible thing is that I tend to save everything,  have boxes of clothes,          , plastic sealed boxes of clothes up, probably never wear again. I have clothes in my closet that I haven't worn in two years, three years, but it's so difficult. I mean, how do I you see on TV was, oh, get rid of that, get rid of that. How do you put it away for three years and then give it away? Or,

Estelle (38:59):

Yeah, I mean, I kinda try to think about doing a closet cleanse at least twice a year. And that's just where you kind of go through, see what doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't need to be hanging in your closet if you can't park, if you can't dare part with it, put it in a box and put it away and go look at it six months later and say, do I still like, this just don't want to keep it. Because when things are hanging in your closet that don't fit, then they're blocking you from finding the things that do. And that's very frustrating when you're trying to get dressed. And a lot of times it's dream stealers. I mean, if you have clothes in there that's too small, that can be demoralizing. If you're trying to be on a healthy kick.

Estelle (39:40):

And you're like, Ugh, that doesn't fit, like that's just a reminder, every time you walk in the closet and he wants that. So fit, I think is one of the most important things. The next, the next factor is condition, is it in good condition? How many times do you have something that has a little stain? You're like, I love it. And well, maybe if I, if I wear this top, you won't see it. And, but then you end up, you don't end up wearing it and sometimes you have to just let go of things. And then,  so that, that's what I recommend is just kind of going through these closet cleanse and then just putting your, making your closet, organized,  group things together, have all your jackets together, all your Tufts together, all your skirts. And then when you're getting dressed, it's a lot easier when things are organized, then you're digging and your words are trying to find a skirt that  is in there somewhere. So

 Annette (40:32):

So, so going back to the home when people are getting a promotion, cause you, you mentioned that some of your clients they're promoted and they want to look the part. So if I'm in corporate, who do I look to women, senior level women, if you're a man, you look at senior level men and see what are, what are they wearing?

Estelle (40:52):

Sure. Yeah. Look at the people who are in those positions. And in addition, not just the people that are there, but the people that you like their style because it's not you and you're dressing like someone else, then you're not going to feel like you.

 Annette (41:07):

So I'm sorry. See where you were saying that look for people that you liked their style, people that          , do you look for like people your age or people that are like you as well, or does it matter? I mean,

Estelle (41:24):

I think to get a general idea of like dress code, I would just kind of look at, I don't think it necessarily matters if they're your age, if they're in a position that is it, how are they dressing that when you see meetings happening of, of people who were in similar, early research conferences so their example,          just seeing what are people in those roles wearing? And that can give you kind of an idea of almost like a style uniform, like you notice that they are wearing blazers or they're all wearing certain type of dress, whatever the case may be you can get a feel for, okay, that's, that's an overall I always liked to decode,          outfits and kind of figure out like, okay, well what, what are the elements of it? And then you can recreate that yourself. 

 Annette (42:13):

Tell Me how, tell me how to do that. Tell us how to do that. 

Estelle (42:17):

Well, It's just like anything. I mean, if you let's say you see an outfit on Pinterest that you like, and you realize that well, okay. That, that person, I really liked that outfit. She's wearing a black and white striped blouse, a black blazer and jeans. What do I have in my closet? That's similar. Well, I don't have a black and white Stripe blouse, but I've got a blue and white striped blouse. And do I have any toppers that are kind of like, and you just kind of play around with it. I really encourage people to play. And another example could be you see someone with a printed blouse, but you don't maybe have the exact printed blouse, but you have a printed blouse and you hadn't thought about pairing it with this color. And it's just all about seeing, taking apart the different elements of an outfit in steam. Okay. Do I have anything similar to that at home? And what can I create that that's going to have a similar vibe. Right,

 Annette (43:07):

Right, right. I understand. I understand. So, yeah. So that's a lot about like shopping in your closet first.

Estelle (43:16):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There are probably a ton of gyms that you have. And sometimes I think what people do is just get so frustrated. They're like, I'm just going to go buy a whole new wardrobe and just ditch everything I have. And it's like, well, there are some things in there. And again, that's when you kind of go back and do that inventory and see, okay, what do I like this in here? What fits and how can I have more of a complete outfit? Do I have enough bottoms? Do I have enough tops? Do I have enough solids? If they're all prints, it's going to be hard to make outfit. So you have to have a blend of solids and prints and tops, bottoms and that kind of thing. So, oh, I lost you. I can't hear you.

 Annette (43:58):

Yes. Sorry. I muted myself because, so we could not hear the dogs as much. So so I can hear you. So,          , as we're, as we're getting close, sort of to the end, what would you like to,  what haven't I asked you that you think is important that you would want to share that you think would be helpful to people listening to this?

Estelle (44:22):

Well, I think that once you kind of figure out what your style is and everyone's style is unique. Like once you kind of figured out your style preferences I think that's the most important thing is being authentic to what you are and having a wardrobe that reflects that. So if you're trying to be someone else, but that's not who you really are or who you feel you are, then people are gonna feel, they're gonna notice something as off and not be able to pinpoint it, but they're going to just something off and then that's going to impact your confidence. And if you're in, you're selling yourself, whether that's in a job interview or with a potential client, you want to stand in your power and the way to do that is to feel comfortable. And that means being authentic.

 Annette (45:07):

So, how do you, how do I, for me, and I had mentioned this to you, what we, when we were first chatting on, on clubhouse,  I wear black all the time. I tend to wear black all the time, all the time and          , how do I, I mean, do I just stick with that? If I like it, or I don't know, it's just, it feels so much like I would want to be more trendy or whatever, but I don't know where to start. So w what somebody like me to do. Yeah. Well, first

Estelle (45:43):

Of all, I don't really think that there are any hard and fast rules. I think you do what works for you, if you like black were black, I don't think there's a problem with that. But if you're looking to expand and maybe try something new, try to look at it through the lens of a child and just having fun and playing and trying thingsif you, if you typically wear black, okay. Go to a store and try on some bright colors and just see, like, you may be like, yep, I hate these. I'm going to go back to my black and that's fine. But,  try it and see, you just never know. It's all about experimentation andsometimes stepping out of your comfort zone to see if there's something you like, and you never would have thought you would. I mean, that's what I think a stylist does a lot for women is just showing them things that they wouldn't have envisioned liking, but ending up liking. So I think it's about playing.

 Annette (46:34):

So, so since you mentioned that, I would like to ask you a question I've used stitch fix for a while, and you mentioned something that you try and something, and they actually sent a dress to me that I would never have even tried on in the store ever, but I put it on and I loved it. And my husband said, oh, that looks great. And do you recommend, , I mentioned that name, the only company I know, I know there are several of them is that something that you would recommend to people to just  try a service like that? And, maybe for, I don't know, three months or six months or something to just get some new things,

Estelle (47:14):

I think it could be I have mixed feelings about this because I think it can be scary.

 Annette (47:21):

No, I'd like to know, what do you think I'm, I'm not asking you to please endorse it. I just,          , what do you think? Is it, is it something good? I mean, I know for me, I did it for a while, but,          , I just didn't, I worked from home. So I'm not out enough to really use the products. No, I

Estelle (47:37):

Think the reason that, I guess what I'm kind of thinking about is the thing that I don't like about certain style subscription services is they're not tailor making it for you. Yes. He might say, I like this over that. Or like, fill out a general survey, but they're not tailor making it for you. And they're not giving you things that are based on your body shape. They’re not asking you for your measurements. They're not, it's not intentional. Like it would be if you were to take an intentional shopping list to the store. And so sometimes what can happen is if you do those style subscription boxes, then you end up having a bunch of random stuff. And a lot of times people are like, well, I want to get my $20 worth. So I'm going to keep one garment that I really don't even like, but I don't want to waste my money.

Estelle (48:14):

And then you have all these that you're like, I don't really even like this stuff. Why do I have all this stuff? And so I think sometimes it can add to closet overwhelm if you do something like that, because it is not intentional, it's more haphazard if you're just doing it for fun and you want to have some fun stuff. Sure. You could try it. And if you don't mind that sending a bunch of stuff back that you don't like, and he knows every now and then you may find something you never would've thought of. But I think if you're using it for professional wardrobe, you might get really frustrated because I just don't think that they are as intentional and it's not as tailored to you. I mean, you get what you pay for if you're only paying 20 bucks. And so if it's fun and you think that's a fun thing to do, I think go for it. And there's nothing wrong with that. For

 Annette (48:55):

Just like fun clothes and to try out some trends, but not for the professional. So if people want to work with someone like you or you do like, do you work with people virtually do other and how, how do they, how does somebody find with style coach that they can work with or stylist. And how do people,  I mean, I'm guessing it's kind of like resume writing where, every, so many people are resume writers who have not a clue, I'm sure that you've had the same thing in, in your field that so how do you know?

Estelle (49:34):

Yeah. I think like anything else it's just a fit, like who do you vibe with? Who who's someone that you feel comfortable with? And a way to do that is just to be, can follow them on social media. For me, I have a, a private Facebook group and I have an Instagram channel. And I think just find someone that you like, their message, you like what they have to say, trust them. And  you could just reach out to them that way. So that's, that would be my best advice. It's just, who's that person that, that you vibe with her and you can also do a Google search and things like that. For me, my website is mainly just a blog. Cause again, I just don't do this, it's, it's more of a side thing. It's not my full-time thing. And so there are other, like stylists out there who do this all the time. And so that could be, you do good by referral, you could Google, research and things like that.

 Annette (50:31):

So if people want to find you, how do they find you?

Estelle (50:34):

Yeah. well I've got a Facebook group and it is only for women because I, I just that's my thing. But yeah, they go on Facebook. It's just Facebook groups, if you look up powerhouse women I have a group it's just called powerhouse women style strategies for raising influence and visibility. So you can go on there, anyone can join. There's just a few questions that you have to answer and then you can request to join the group. So,

 Annette (51:04):

And what's your, what's your website because I'm guessing people can learn about the Facebook group from your website?

Estelle (51:09):

Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's just a Selwyn set.com. So yeah. And have they

 Annette (51:15):

Have your name? That's easier to remember. They just have your name and that's EstelleWinsett.com and that way they can learn about you. And, if there’s something that, that might've clicked with somebody who watches this most people do watch on the replay. So okay, well thank you so much. It's been sure pleasure. So we will say goodbye to the people that are still out there. Thank you. Several people have been here Stephanie as, since the beginning and Ruth. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you again next time. That sounds great. Thanks for having me.

Outro (51:59):

Thanks again for joining me for this episode of smarter career news podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and don't forget to join us in the smarter moves blob on clubhouse as well.